Devolution Spray

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Siemik
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by Siemik »

For me it is a big NO, this item should never exist in VA, nor regular Pokemon Games. Let it stay in TCG :)

Eventually only for migrated ones - you cannot trade them, so you can have your personal memories back, just for yourself :)
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KitsuLeif
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by KitsuLeif »

Alive wrote: November 16th, 2022, 11:28 am I'm really surprised I'm the only one who can see it.
No, that's a really good point you're making there.
What do you think of Pokémon that evolve via trading? Let's say I want a Shiny Kadabra, but when I trade for one, it will evolve inevitably.
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by AbsintusVeritas »

I can also imagine that this is a problem.

There could be a maximum number of missions per Pokémon - you can only devolve it until it reaches the base level. Then, if you screw up again, it's too late.

I don't think it should work with trade evos. If you want the Pokémon to stay the same, you can ask your trade partner to set an Everstone, and maybe give them some extra Pokémon to cover the cost of the stone.

And it shouldn't be possible to do this to get baby Pokémon, I think. That would take away a big chunk of the breeding (which, by the way, has been really fun since the bar!!)
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by KitsuLeif »

I'm not 100% sure, but does an Everstone prevent evolution in trading? I know it does with other Evolution Stones, but I don't know if it prevents trading evolutions as well. But it should.

Even then, undoing only level-based evolutions sounds good enough. And devolving into Baby Pokémon should only work if the Pokémon has been a baby before, so it doesn't meddle with the breeding aspect.
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by Yoshiki »

KitsuLeif wrote: November 16th, 2022, 12:38 pm And devolving into Baby Pokémon should only work if the Pokémon has been a baby before, so it doesn't meddle with the breeding aspect.
But how do you know if your VA once was a Baby-VA? I expect people getting angry, because they payed so much for this spray and than it does not work. :lol:
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by KitsuLeif »

I'm pretty sure, we will find a way how to prevent frustration, if an item like this ever became available.
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by KiraNear »

Siemik wrote: November 16th, 2022, 11:53 am For me it is a big NO, this item should never exist in VA, nor regular Pokemon Games. Let it stay in TCG :)

Eventually only for migrated ones - you cannot trade them, so you can have your personal memories back, just for yourself :)
I would be fine by this, tbh. Just because you cannot trade the migrated ones.
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by Alive »

KitsuLeif wrote: November 16th, 2022, 12:38 pm I'm not 100% sure, but does an Everstone prevent evolution in trading? I know it does with other Evolution Stones, but I don't know if it prevents trading evolutions as well. But it should.
Yes, it does prevent any evolution, including trading. I got my Kadabra this way from a friend, with an everstone on it. :3

And this item, if ever implemented, should have proper requiements (limits, price, certain pokemon) to avoid too much simplification like: click-done, click-undone.
You can't eat the cake and have a cake - you have to decide.
Maybe it would be a good solution if the de-evo was permanent, I mean, yes, you can bring your pokemon back to its 2nd or 1st stage, but it won't evolve again - like it gains a permanent everstone. It's harsch, but it would help to avoid further ill-considered decisions.
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SchokoKitsune
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by SchokoKitsune »

I wasn't even thinking about item-related evolutions when upvoting this, tbh.

I do think if a De-Evolution spray were to be implemented, it should at least work on normal level up evos that can accidently happen, and of course it should work with your migrated adopts. I would like if it works for time-based evolutions like Umbreon or the Lycanroc-forms, because you can easily fudge those up and having another try in such cases would be nice.

On the other hand, I can see how it could be mis-used with (shiny) Eevee, and in general adopts with multiple forms, but I do not think turning it into a permanent everstone is the right solution for this. You should be allowed to try evolving them again if you actually regret the evolution you did, or you accidently evolved during the wrong ingame-time, but maybe on these there could be a time limit you'd have to wait for before trying again? And in general, a counter per Adopt each month, so that you can't just switch the same shiny Eevee around all the time. Those limitations would need to be visible somewhere tho, so that we do not end up with everyone and their mom asking why their de-evolved Eevee can't evolve again - maybe something like a pop-up that tells you how much time you have left waiting before you can try evolving your de-evolved mon again, and that you can de-evolve it again in x days?

In the video-games, i can stop an evolution I do not want from happening before it's fully formed... why shouldn't we get something similar on Virtuadopt!
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by FairyPrincessCynthia »

Okay, but what about this then?

Sure, item evolutions are a conscious decision, but it's not always the conscious decision of the owner of the Pokemon in question. Let's roll back to that Eevee evolution example. Let's say you wanted a shiny Umbreon. You got a shiny Jolteon in a trade. You did not evolve it, yet you're subject to that same "You can't devolve Pokemon with special conditions" clause. Frankly, while it is true that a conscious decision goes into evolving a Pokemon with an item, it's not always your decision that evolved the Pokemon you own.

In addition, the monetary value of the item that was consumed to evolve the Pokemon is 'cost' enough to consider not devolving something, because you're not getting that item, or the money used to buy that item, back.
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by K-Y »

As I said - this is a pokemon game, not digimon, every decision has it consequences you know.
TCG has many strange items, I like playing this game, but I don't need cards here.

I might agree with transferred mons (you can lvl it up before setting new everstone, yes, of course). Accidentally lvl up a shiny up to 200 lvl sounds just funny. Just add shiny stars to the pokemon image + option to hide them later, to make sure you SAW it was a shiny, problem solved.

And about this
FairyPrincessCynthia wrote: November 16th, 2022, 7:54 pm Sure, item evolutions are a conscious decision, but it's not always the conscious decision of the owner of the Pokemon in question. Let's roll back to that Eevee evolution example. Let's say you wanted a shiny Umbreon. You got a shiny Jolteon in a trade. You did not evolve it, yet you're subject to that same "You can't devolve Pokemon with special conditions" clause. Frankly, while it is true that a conscious decision goes into evolving a Pokemon with an item, it's not always your decision that evolved the Pokemon you own.
If you want sh Umbreon, you have to search for sh Eevee or sh Umbreon, not for sh Jolteon :D you can't accidentally trade for a wrong mon... Accidentally trade can happen with trading mons only - and it can be easily solved by everstone + PM.

In conclusion, devolution might be good idea for migrated mons. In over cases? Nope, it would make this game too easy. And if you rly want to use it on other mon (with your OT), let's ban it from GTS.

And just add stars on the shiny images.
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KitsuLeif
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by KitsuLeif »

K-Y wrote: November 17th, 2022, 9:40 am As I said - this is a pokemon game, not digimon, every decision has it consequences you know.
TCG has many strange items, I like playing this game, but I don't need cards here.
And which official Pokémon game has Monthlies and Promos? Which game lets you level your Pokémon past level 100?
This game is what we make of it. There are no set boundaries from what we can draw inspiration. After all this is a game from fans for fans.

I'm with you, it shouldn't be used to devolve item-based evolutions or trade-based evolutions, but everything that evolves based on levelling up should work fine. Maybe even only Pokémon with your OT, so that it can really only be used for when you messed things up by accident, which happens all the time. Click Exchange is incredibly fast right now, and when I used it to evolve my freshly hatched Hoppip into Skiploom, I gave it 150 credits. I didn't even see Skiploom, it must have jumped that evolution within a few levels, because when I next checked, it was already a Jumpluff, which I didn't want. Fortunately, that wasn't a Shiny, but it could very well have been.
So I'd love to see a Devolution Spray as an option in some form to fix mistakes.
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by FairyPrincessCynthia »

I've opted to change my initial +1.

+1 support, but only if the spray doesn't have arbitrary "You can't use it on X" garbage. Otherwise I will be opposed to this suggestion entirely. Do not quote me to argue why you think your opinion is better. I've not interested in any more "you can't do X because reasons" arguments. They're why Ditto is crap, Baby Pokemon can't evolve, and a plethora of gender-locked/genderless Pokemon are completely unbreedable.
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by Dragonclaw »

+1 agreeing with FairyPrincessCynthia.
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by Alive »

K-Y wrote: November 17th, 2022, 9:40 am If you want sh Umbreon, you have to search for sh Eevee or sh Umbreon, not for sh Jolteon :D you can't accidentally trade for a wrong mon... Accidentally trade can happen with trading mons only - and it can be easily solved by everstone + PM.

In conclusion, devolution might be good idea for migrated mons. In over cases? Nope, it would make this game too easy. And if you rly want to use it on other mon (with your OT), let's ban it from GTS.
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I've got a bad feeling this conversation went too far. It started from "how to fix (migrated/regular) pokemon that evolved by accident", and now we have "we demand this item to make evos/de-evos whenever we want to, because we are too indecisive in what we do". [Insert shiny eevee example here]
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by TsukinoRan »

I think having a spray/item/whatever you wanna call it for de-evolution for migrated adopts would be okay (since people tend to forget everstones sometimes).
Maybe also for adopts that evolve via trade like Kadabra, when people forgot to attach an everstone and you are stuck with an Alakazam instead.
But I dunno...having an item that you can randomly use for devolving certain adopts when you tire of them...doesn't sound too good. If you got an adopt you don't wanna have anymore (even when it's a shiny) there is still trading for the one shiny you would give everything for.
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by KitsuLeif »

Alive wrote: November 17th, 2022, 1:40 pm It started from "how to fix (migrated/regular) pokemon that evolved by accident", and now we have "we demand this item to make evos/de-evos whenever we want to, because we are too indecisive in what we do". [Insert shiny eevee example here]
I've thought about this again, and to be honest, I don't think it's as big of a problem you're trying to make it.
Let's say, you're indecisive.
So? Then you have your shiny Vaporeon on one day, pay a high amount of money the other day to make it a Flareon and on the next day you make it a Jolteon. What do you get from this? You just lose money. But you never have all three shiny Eeveelutions at the same time sitting next to each other in your box, unless you get another two Shiny Eevees. Every time you use the Devolution Spray, you have to pay money upfront to buy it.
And since it's intended to be for emergency uses only, it will cost more than a regular evolution item.
How much exactly? I don't know. It could be ridiculously high to discourage a daily usage.
50k will probably make you think twice if you really want to devolve your shiny Eeveelution just because you are in another mood today. 100k even more so. Especially when there are other ways you could spend this money on, like the Raffle.
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by Syiren »

One thing that may help balance the spray and not make it a McGuffin to abuse the system is to make it a one-time use item per pokemon.

Example:

Eevee: evolved into Espeon!
Trainer: Oh no! I wanted an Umbreon, but ran out of time!
Trainer: Uses Devolution Spray then evolves eevee into umbreon
Trainer next day: Oh, Actually I liked Espeon better. Tries to use spray again.

Message Pops up (maybe accompanied by a picture of Nurse Joy or Officer Jenny?) saying: "You've already used this item on this pokemon."

If we put a limit on how many times the pokemon can be changed it balances it out and rules out the chance of a very helpful mechanic being abused.
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by Serenia »

1+ I like this idea, especially what Syiren suggested.
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Re: Devolution Spray

Post by Tango »

Once you start adding limitations to the number of times it can be used on a single adopt, as in the example from Syiren above, you run into the same problem as described earlier in the thread with traded adopts. What if that Kadabra you just traded for & didn't have the everstone on had already previously gone through the de-evolution process from its previous owner? Now you're stuck in the exact same way as if the item had never existed.


Adding a bunch of special rules and exceptions onto the item could be adding complication where it doesn't really solve any problems, or makes it too hard to remember or track or implement. It's best at its simplest.


Overall I think this would be an interesting, one-time-use, expensive, item that's just exactly like an evolution stone but backwards.

With the concern of baby forms...
If it costs (for example) ~$10,000 per use no one is going to abuse that to get baby forms versus the Daycare. Maybe here and there, to save time perhaps, but even when trying for a Tyrogue you could breed more efficiently compared to that cost. So I don't see that as actually being a problem.

I'm with Kitsu on the idea that this wouldn't disincentivize collecting. You're not duplicating shinies. Sure you could spend $$$$ to switch them around on a whim, should you have the cash, but that's not nearly the same as actually having them all. If anything it could help 'freshen' up a collection by having some variant control much in the way some other collection sites do with similar items.

Though, I agree on that shiny Jolteon > Umbreon example that that's a bit silly ;p You normally wouldn't be searching for a shiny jolteon in the hopes of having a different eeveelution shiny haha. This item would, in that case, feel like a bit of an abuse.


BUT! As much as I find this item proposal interesting... ... I do absolutely get the point of 'this isn't Digimon'; even if this is from the TCG, the TCG doesn't exactly follow the norms from the other branches of the franchise. I'm really on the fence of which side I most support. I like the simple, forward, motion that evo stages take. But any dislike on this idea is purely of a 'personal taste' perspective and has nothing to do with 'will this ruin the game', cause I don't think it would.

I probably wouldn't ever use this item myself.

If this item was to be implemented, I'm with FairyPrincess on that it should be kept simple without a whole comparison table of what it can and can't do.
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