Possible Daycare Improvement

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AcryliCat UwU
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Possible Daycare Improvement

Post by AcryliCat UwU »

So I brought up the topic of the Daycare Center earlier in the Discord Server, sparking some conversation surrounding what improvements could be made to help breeding not be as utterly miserable as it currently is. The addition of the click-to-boost bar was certainly a welcome and necessary addition to the Daycare when it was implemented several years ago, however you must admit that there is always room for more improvement. The bar, while appreciated, was never where the improvements to the Daycare Center should be stopped.

At the current rate, most players get an average of one egg per day. Some more, and some less depending on what type of player they are and how much RNG hates them. With luck, you'll typically hatch a shiny pokemon every 375 eggs, however many players report hatching upwards of 800+ without a shiny, so again, RNG. This being said, if you were as lucky as possible, it very well will still take a player a full year to breed ONE shiny pokemon. This would also cost the player around half a million pokedollar.

To put this year into perspective, let's say you are in between being a casual player and a very active one. You adopt about 36 eggs (3 batches of 12) per day. This would mean in that year you would hatch 13,140 random pokemon, including around 35 shiny pokemon give or take.

That said, there is absolutely no reason that choosing to breed for a shiny pokemon via the Daycare Center should be so tedious and time consuming. That is why I have come up with a few ideas/suggestions for improvements that could be made. I'd also like the community's help in adding on to this as I obviously can't think of everything myself.

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Idea 1 : Increase Full-Bar Odds

From what I've tested, it takes between 1500-1800 clicks to fill the daycare boost bar. We are not aware of the percentage it actually boosts, however. I've been told 'quite a bit', but no percentages have been thrown around and honestly not that much of a difference can be noticed from my perspective.

One of my ideas is to raise the amount of clicks needed to completely fill the bar, and once filled, the next hour roll should have an incredibly high chance for an egg. I'm talking a 90% chance. In the Discord Server, I threw out the number 3k for clicks.

To prove that this would not be overpowered or ruin the rarity of certain shinies, I made the example of someone playing virtuadopt for 16 hours in the day, leaving 8 hours to sleep. they click 3k adopts to fill the boost bar every hour, and every hour they collect their egg. Assuming they're the luckiest bloke on the site and get an egg every hour that they play, and that the madlad gets 3k clicks in every hour, it would still take around 24 days and a whopping 1,152,000 clicks to hatch a shiny.

For a player like myself, someone who isn't casual but also can't be considered too hardcore, I play for roughly 4-5 hours most days a week, it would take me over three months to hit numbers like that IF i was religiously clicking. For particularly casual players, even longer. That being said, this kind of change should not affect the general odds for casual players who dont fill the boost bar- this should simply be a benefit to those who do a lot of clicking.

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Idea 2 : Stacking Eggs

Multiple eggs stacking in the daycare, that's about it. I can't say I'd be too fond of this idea in a standalone fashion- I think it would still need to come with some kind of odds boost, however it is simple and effective. You're away from the game for 8-12 hours because you're at work? Well boo on you if your daycare rolls an egg on hour 1. With this type of idea implemented, you can make the most out of being afk and maybe be lucky enough to stack a few eggs up by the time you check back in the game. Particularly positive for more casual players who may only check the game once a day.

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Idea 3 : Multiple Breeding Slots

Something I think would be very unique- the ability to buy or unlock extra breeding slots in the daycare. This essentially gives you extra hourly rolls for an egg, doubling, tripling, and even quadrupling your chances for at least one egg every hour. These slots could possibly be bought for a high price, however I think at least 1 or two extra slots could be earned, so more casual players have a chance at getting them, too.

Thinking up to three extra slots, making four breeding slots total. You earn one by ,say, fully completing the current national dex. Then the other two can be bought for like, 1 million pokedollar each. Obtainable, but difficult enough.

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Idea 4 : Egg Chance Items

Self explanatory- items that can be bought in the Mart and used from the Daycare screen, increasing your odds for an egg for a certain amount of time. There could be multiple of these items at different price points. You should probably be able to use multiple to stack the time.

Small Poke-Spray $ 1500 - Slightly increases the chance for your pair in the Daycare to produce an egg for 12 hours.
Great Poke-Spray $ 5000 - Significantly increases the chance for your pair in the Daycare to produce an egg for 12 hours.
Ultra Poke-Spray $ 10.000 - Greatly increases the chance for your pair in the Daycare to produce an egg for 12 hours.

I think an idea like this should be implemented alongside an idea like Stacking Eggs. Perhaps the items could even be found through Congrats.

Edit:

ColarFX also suggested an item to boost your shiny chances- this could also potentially be used in the mart or as a Congrats, and simply be quite expensive. Should be able to use it in tandem with the egg boosting sprays. Also stackable so people don't have to click to use the next one.

Sparkling Poke-Spray $50.000 - Significantly increases the odds for your pair in the Daycare to produce a shiny offspring on the next breeding.

Obvioulsy this item implies that it wears off as soon as your Pokemon produce an egg, which I think is fair. This also depends on how hatching works- this is under the assumption that the type of Pokemon and whether that Pokemon is shiny or not is decided as soon as the egg is created on the server. If that's not how it works, the idea can pretty easily be tweaked to fit how it does.

Example: spraying individual eggs once in your box. Also then can be used on random Pokemon.

I would think the odds should be brought up to around 1/100 chances. If you wanted to breed and hatch 100 eggs with this boost, you would be spending 5.000.000 pokedollar. Which at that point, you honestly deserve that shiny.

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Idea 5 : Chaining

I'm only just a beginner in web development, so I do not know how the code for this works. However, implementing a chaining system would be fun and rewarding for users who enjoy shiny hunting. Could always require that users buy a 'Pokeradar' and a 'Battery' for it from the mart to be able to start their chain, and require that they buy a new battery should they break their chain or hatch a shiny. The downside to this sort of idea is that there still needs to be an incentive for those users to click- as they won't be able to hatch random eggs. This is where Idea 1 could potentially come into play. Rewarding the user for continuing t click though they aren't adding much to their collection of pokemon in the moment.

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Those are all the ideas I've got so far. If you guys have anything you want to add or comment on, feel free. Sorry I wrote a novel.
Last edited by AcryliCat UwU on November 23rd, 2022, 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ColarFX
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Re: Possible Daycare Improvement

Post by ColarFX »

+1

Being able to breed more than one pair would be awesome. And not all players will be able to do this. It will consume more money so if someone wants to be causal, he/she can stay casual. This way people who clicks more can be rewarded for their efforts.

Stacking eggs in the daycare also needed. Not all players can check every hour, so they should be given the oppurtunity to not waste their time&money.

Egg chance item's are good too. This would definitely help casual players alot.

And improvements on shiny chance is essential, at least for me. Chaining might not be the best option but breeding same pokemons for a long time may increase the chance to get a shiny egg. Or even a really expensive item to increase the chance would be okay.

Like any other game, you should be rewarded according to time you spent on the game. If someone doesn't want to play more than 1 hour daily, let him/her be. But this doesn't mean I and other players who play more should be treated the same. Let there be something that players can acquire according to their play time. That thing might even be tempting casual players to play more too.
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Re: Possible Daycare Improvement

Post by KiraNear »

+1 for multiple breeding (In Sword/Shield, you can use two several daycares for breeding)
+1 for stacking eggs
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AcryliCat UwU
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Re: Possible Daycare Improvement

Post by AcryliCat UwU »

ColarFX wrote: November 23rd, 2022, 1:27 pm +1

Being able to breed more than one pair would be awesome. And not all players will be able to do this. It will consume more money so if someone wants to be causal, he/she can stay casual. This way people who clicks more can be rewarded for their efforts.

Stacking eggs in the daycare also needed. Not all players can check every hour, so they should be given the oppurtunity to not waste their time&money.

Egg chance item's are good too. This would definitely help casual players alot.

And improvements on shiny chance is essential, at least for me. Chaining might not be the best option but breeding same pokemons for a long time may increase the chance to get a shiny egg. Or even a really expensive item to increase the chance would be okay.

Like any other game, you should be rewarded according to time you spent on the game. If someone doesn't want to play more than 1 hour daily, let him/her be. But this doesn't mean I and other players who play more should be treated the same. Let there be something that players can acquire according to their play time. That thing might even be tempting casual players to play more too.
I expanded a bit on the shiny chance item idea. How something like that would work depends a lot on if the Pokemon has already been rolled for shiny chances upon it's egg being created.

I appreciate the support and feedback!
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SchokoKitsune
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Re: Possible Daycare Improvement

Post by SchokoKitsune »

Unsure about idea 1. The clicks needed for a full bar depend on the compatibility of the adopts you use. If you manage to do them in 1 hour, 3,3k clicks are currently needed for the best possible pairs anyway, as you roughly get 3% per 100 clicks for same species pairings. 2% for same egg Group, 1% for Ditto. The same percentages are added each passing hour, even with no clicks. Unless something was changed and/or I got the math wrong, which is very possible as I'm both tired and bad at math.

Usually, when the bar is full, I get an egg pretty fast. If I do not click at all with my same species pair in the daycare, the bar is still full every ~one and a half days. If this would take longer because clicks are raided, I'd probably be back to 2 eggs every few weeks.. no, thank you xwx"

+1 for ideas 2, 3 and 4 tho!

And for suggestion 5, if Chains would only work for breeding, aka daycare-eggs having higher chances the more eggs your active pair provided you, it would get my +1 as well.

I'd also once again love to add the suggestions of making gender-neutral and male-only mons breedable with Ditto, as well as upping their compatibility with Ditto to at least neutral as there is no other choice to breed them with. Those have their own suggestion threads somewhere, but as I'm currently on mobile I can't link them properly.
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Re: Possible Daycare Improvement

Post by AcryliCat UwU »

SchokoKitsune wrote: November 23rd, 2022, 4:13 pm Unsure about idea 1. The clicks needed for a full bar depend on the compatibility of the adopts you use. If you manage to do them in 1 hour, 3,3k clicks are currently needed for the best possible pairs anyway, as you roughly get 3% per 100 clicks for same species pairings. 2% for same egg Group, 1% for Ditto. The same percentages are added each passing hour, even with no clicks. Unless something was changed and/or I got the math wrong, which is very possible as I'm both tired and bad at math.

Usually, when the bar is full, I get an egg pretty fast. If I do not click at all with my same species pair in the daycare, the bar is still full every ~one and a half days. If this would take longer because clicks are raided, I'd probably be back to 2 eggs every few weeks.. no, thank you xwx"

+1 for ideas 2, 3 and 4 tho!

And for suggestion 5, if Chains would only work for breeding, aka daycare-eggs having higher chances the more eggs your active pair provided you, it would get my +1 as well.

I'd also once again love to add the suggestions of making gender-neutral and male-only mons breedable with Ditto, as well as upping their compatibility with Ditto to at least neutral as there is no other choice to breed them with. Those have their own suggestion threads somewhere, but as I'm currently on mobile I can't link them properly.
Huh, from all the testing I've done, you should get about 6% per 100 clicks with same species breeding. Which is why I originally said it takes about 1,500 to 1800 clicks to fill the bar. If different users are getting different results using same species, then I feel like that's an inconsistency on the developer's part. Number should at least be the same across the game so if we wanted to figure out the percentages and chances we can do it ourselves.

Chances with male only Pokemon: viewtopic.php?t=24198
(Ditto is mentioned in this thread but I don't see where there might be a recent thread regarding it specifically)

I'll edit that suggestion for daycare-only chaining when I have a moment.
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Tango
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Re: Possible Daycare Improvement

Post by Tango »

In general, further daycare add-ons/improvements are being considered even before the last big thread complaining about how the daycare works but they're mostly waiting on the redesign. But always good with more ideas tossed around! Ty Acrylicat.



One thing I will say, as a mostly casual player... I have a 40+ hr job, plus a house & people to take care of, plus other volunteer obligations beyond the volunteering I do for VA. I would love to be able to click more than ~4 hours a week, but can't. Not won't: can't. Not saying I speak for all of those who make up the casual part of VA's community but just giving a bit of perspective.

Though! Still on board with more rewards for the dedicated players. But, I would hope there would be some balancing cost at a depreciating scale of return. Don't want to punish those in the community who are more casual or leave them to far behind. I like to believe VA is more considerate and caring of its general community.



1) Bar Odds
Once the bar is maxed it's very rare for me to have to wait very long for an egg to appear *thinks*. It's usually within 3 hours. Even with my meagre amount of clicks I can still end up with an egg every 1-2 days with best pairs. Minor tweaking could be good on the bar rate but I don't really see a need for a complete overhaul. When there's 700+ adoptables that you could hatch from randoms (obviously not atm but in the future) but you can breed your specific one multiple times a day that seems like a great return for getting the shiny you want.

When making generic comparisons of getting a shiny, there's a difference between getting 1 random shiny versus 1 targeted shiny. It isn't a 1:1 comparison when you're doing math.


2) Egg Basket
Yes.


3) Multiple Pairs
FR does this, though their egg system is different. I like the idea of this being a milestone reward -- not bought -- and not a ton of them. 1 additional seems fine. Though, if it would be buyable, it shouldn't be priced out of reach of casuals.


4) Items for Egg Chances
There was a Discord chat a few months ago with great ideas surrounding how to make use of the Oval Charm, but none of them made it to the suggestions forum & I don't remember them now D: But I remember really liking it versus these sprays. Perhaps someone can dredge that up.


5) Chaining
I can't say to much on this. It doesn't appeal at all to me, but I'm not a shiny hunter :3 Could be interesting?
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Re: Possible Daycare Improvement

Post by FairyPrincessCynthia »

Egg basket is a definite yes.

And if there's something I could actively do to raise my shiny chances, because I've been trying to breed a solitary shiny Eevee for... [checks notes]... HALF A DECADE

Hell, I'd even accept a pity system at this point that would guarantee a shiny if you didn't hatch one after a certain quantity of eggs.
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Re: Possible Daycare Improvement

Post by Tango »

:O Terrible! We need a shiny charm
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Re: Possible Daycare Improvement

Post by AcryliCat UwU »

I already found the short oval charm conversation and I will add it when I can get back to my laptop.
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Re: Possible Daycare Improvement

Post by SchokoKitsune »

AcryliCat UwU wrote: November 23rd, 2022, 4:37 pm Huh, from all the testing I've done, you should get about 6% per 100 clicks with same species breeding. Which is why I originally said it takes about 1,500 to 1800 clicks to fill the bar. If different users are getting different results using same species, then I feel like that's an inconsistency on the developer's part. Number should at least be the same across the game so if we wanted to figure out the percentages and chances we can do it ourselves.
I'm pretty sure it's 3% for same-species that you get without doing anything, plus an additional 3 percent for each 100 clicks in the hour - at least it has been in my testing when the daycare-bar re-released! I did check on the "not doing anything" part again and that is indeed 3% for my Vulpix'. Would I now do 100 clicks as well as wait for the next hourly refresh, i'd probably get 6% added to the bar. Will edit this with the results xD

(Back to topic: Both an oval and a shiny charm would be *very* nice additions - maybe both via the reward/achievement-system if/when it gets re-implemented in a fancy and improved version someday in the future!)

Edit: Yep, 100 clicks did add another 3 percent for same species, so 6% overall added at the full hour mark with 100 clicks done. To go from 0% to 100% in one hour, it would still be needed to do ~3k something clicks. For the non-perfect pairs, it's even more. With just clicks, currently at 5k to fill the bar for same egg-group, and 10k with Ditto. (Minus percent x hours it took you to click as those do get added anyway.) As a casual player that can usually only dedicate 1-3 hours of my day to gaming in general, 10k clicks aren't anything I could do each week. I mean, I can barely do the 3k clicks to fill up the bar for my Vulpix currently - so I would not like it if getting better egg-odds just got harder. x_x maybe, if it's possible programming wise, add an item that more active players could use to get click-challenges for higher egg-chances..? So if you want to, you can still benefit from it, but if you do not want to, you don't lose your passive egg chance every ~2-3 days.
Last edited by SchokoKitsune on November 23rd, 2022, 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Possible Daycare Improvement

Post by AcryliCat UwU »

SchokoKitsune wrote: November 23rd, 2022, 8:20 pm
I'm pretty sure it's 3% for same-species that you get without doing anything, plus an additional 3 percent for each 100 clicks in the hour - at least it has been in my testing when the daycare-bar re-released! I did check on the "not doing anything" part again and that is indeed 3% for my Vulpix'. Would I now do 100 clicks as well as wait for the next hourly refresh, i'd probably get 6% added to the bar. Will edit this with the results xD
I see what you meant, I didn't understand the first time. Yeah when you click 100 times it looks like you get an extra 3% so my math is a bit wrong. The point still stands as far as filling the bar completely goes, I think.
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